Will Hip-Hop Ever Reach Its Full Potential? The Worth of Women
PDX SOCIAL — By rahmielmitchell on September 9, 2009 at 9:25 amWill Hip-Hop Ever Reach Its Full Potential?
The Worth of Women
How will hip hop ever grow to its full potential when the very gender that reproduces our future artists, activists, columnists, producers, and entrepreneurs of our urban community are belittled to almost an object for the testosterone filled modern day rappers? When did the women of our culture become only useful for physical beauty and sexual activity? Why doesn’t Rap music uplift and inspire their female listeners to reach the same level of success males have?
I recall a time when men sang about women in a positive light, highlighting the attributes of their personality, loyalty, strength, and physical appearance. Of course most of this music was beyond my time, being an 80’s baby and all, but I heard my elders playing it and dancing to it. Romance and loyalty weren’t defined as a sense of weakness for a man, 
and it took those two qualities including sincerity and love to win over that special girl. They encouraged each other to treat their women right and be there for their families.
We have entered a new age where derogatory and sexist remarks, adultery, and irresponsible sexual activity are considered masculine. The influence of multiple partners is on the rise along with the spread of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, teenage pregnancy, and illegitimate children. We are encouraging our community to be unfaithful to their significant others for one night of meaningless passion or an affair that will lead to disaster and heart break.
I must admit, many of our women today do demonstrate such behaviors that the majority of commercial rap artists express in their music. After being raised in a culture that insists they are inferior to men and must use sex appeal to be successful, some become content with the oppressing views and choose to follow the lifestyle they are heavily exposed to. When one is told from an adolescent that physical appearances is the main attraction in modern society, some women become insecure about natural human flaws and lose focus of utilizing their strengths beyond cosmetics. This is why so many young women use seductive methods to impress and attract the opposite sex, lowering their self-worth.
I’m a believer that there are differences between classy and trashy women, but it seems the commercial scene tends to glorify the negative aspects of some women, failing to promote and appreciate the beneficial qualities women 
contribute to our society. When there is no differentiation between speculations, it causes these male rappers’ perceptions to be generalized, which doesn’t only offend certain female individuals who may or had possessed such negative mannerisms, but it offends all women causing a stall in the progression of our community. Exposing the truth about a negative experience one had with a woman is more than acceptable, as long as we are acknowledging that her behavior was not. In addition to these stories and statements, we should to discuss the positive characteristics of the female gender in an attempt to empower them as contributors to our cause.
In order for Hip-Hop to reach its full potential, we need to utilize all strengths we possess within our culture. Women not only acquire the most important ability to multiply the population of the urban community, thus making us stronger, more stable, diverse and efficient, but are equally capable of achieving many successes men have. Male artists need to encourage women to be more than physical beauty, exotic dancers, and sexual objects, while women need to show their worth by presenting themselves in a more positive and classy manner. When our culture’s misogynist views begin to deteriorate the self-esteem, self-confidence, and self-worth of our women, it continues to reflect on the children who are the next generation of potential positive urban leaders, causing our community to self-destruct.
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38 Comments
I am curious to read what the women think about this article…
I am too! Please give me feedback on this column, I feel it is a sensitive topic that needs to be discussed!
WORD WORD WORD!!!
Ok here’s a female perspective for y’all (altho my perspective usually represents less of the public than the majority, but then again, the majority of the public are a bunch of dumb asses, which is part of society’s problem…lol).
Yeah I agree. Michael Tyson touches on this topic a bit in his book “Hollar if You Hear Me.” He notes that misogyny is generally a problem in the ghetto and black communities, even back in the 70s, so it’s natural that this mentality is expressed in the music that they make. However, it’s not unique to Hip-Hop as it was present in other forms of music that came before it, such as the blues. So, with that said, the problem and the solution is multi-dimensional. It’s a way of sexist thought within specific communities. Women and men grow up in these circumstances and accept it as the norm, so they go with it. So how do we change the mentality of these ppl? That’s tough. I guess it’d mean programs that teach women that they are just like any man and can go do sports and speak up and don’t need to be concerned w/ their looks and that their sole existence isn’t to be somebody’s girl; that their value stretches far beyond their sexuality, just like the value of a man stretches far beyond his sexuality… or his car or money or any of that! But changing the way ppl think is tough and takes generations before results are found…. such is the case w/ racism and sexism nation-wide.
Now, personally, I frickin hate the misogyny in Hip-Hop. I feel that it’s definitely gotten more prevalent and more explicit in today’s music, and that only helps perpetuate and spread this kind of mentality. People hear music about screwing girls or all this nasty stuff, they hear inappropriate terms being used for women, and they recite it. And they start talking like that. And then, they believe it and that’s how they think and act. And it’s played in the clubs, and everybody keeps dancing like it’s ok. The rapper is saying derogatory ish and the girls keep grinding. Not me. I stop in my tracks (well, I’m not grinding, I’m dancing; and I’m a dancer who doesn’t like to lose momentum, but I’m not dancing to that shit!!)
But I’m the odd-ball. Most ppl aren’t listening to the lyrics. Most ppl just like a good sound and don’t live Hip-Hop. I live Hip-Hop. I take this ish personally… cuz the death of Hip-Hop be the death of me. But every culture has it’s weaknesses and its problems, Misogyny is one of ours that needs to be addressed.
You’re right in saying that while the rappers need to stop rapping such shit, the women need to stop going w/ it and enforcing what they say. I don’t know why they do. I literally don’t associate w/ the average person who acts like that so I don’t get it. I can only say that I counter the image of the average girl or the typical “hoe” by my very existence and who I am. But it doesn’t even matter bc there are 30 girls who will counter the challenge that I present to these stereotypes in a mere minute as they all get up on the bar w/ their boobs half sticking out and grind on each other tastelessly. Simply an embarrassment to my gender. And then it’s affirmed in every guys’ mind that, yup, that’s what chicks are like and maybe I’ll get me some of that. And why does everyone think this is ok? I guess that it’s just become a norm. It’s all over the radio, all over TV… we’ve seen it so much that we’ve become desensitized. We think that’s how it should be and so they act as such. But then there’s the few outliers like myself, just doing me.
oh and it doesn’t help that the promoters/photographers will photograph all the chicks who fit this stereotype. The more nasty the pic– the more grinding, the more boobs, the less the clothes, the more seduction going on– the “better” the photo. That’s what they’re looking to post. That’s what all the fliers have for events at the clubs, parties, etc.– always some girl half naked looking like she’s ready to get busy. And people are adaptive by nature. And we grow up under these circumstances so both guys and girls that’s how it’s supposed to be, and they go w/ it.
So…. it’s what society wants, it’s what society gets.
You’re right. For men it has become cool and encouraged to be on some douchery. We show too much attention to the girl struttin her stuff, which is what she wants. But the girl coverin it up isn’t getting noticed. But that girl isn’t getting all of that negative attention either, so that’s good for her. But we as men need to quit glorifying whore-aciousness. We gotta quit trying to pop at the woman who has a different man every week. A girl like that is gonna have a different man as soon as you two are done anyway. Women need to understand the kind of man they are going to get if they portray themselves in such a negative, sexual, seductive, way. They aren’t going to get a good man that way, then they are going to wonder why they can’t ever get a good man. Because that man isn’t trying to get with a good woman. Society preaches all types of negativity. We teach out boys to go and get some, and act like they failed if they didn’t get any that night. We make it fashionable to be with a hoochie. Yet we try to teach our girls not to be that hoochy. If you don’t want your daughter to be a hoochie, then don’t breed with one. But as long as we keep attracting ourselves to them, then that’s who we are going to keep breeding with, and the future generations will be the same way. The thing is, too many people are having kids with people they dont like, then they end up not liking their kids because they created their kids with one half of something that they didn’t like. Make babies with a lady you like, and respect, and you’ll have babies you like, and respect. We can have fun and still act right.
thanks for leading the discussion, Diezel P! my .02:
if we don’t support one-another to change, is change realistic? men or women alone aren’t to blame for the sexism and misogyny: masculinity and femininity are two sides of the same coin, and one won’t change without changing the other.
historically, men have been less involved in this effort than women have. i think there are a lot of parallels to ending racism: we need more white people active against racism. we need more men active against the sexism in our society as well. can’t stay neutral on a moving train.
men are responsible for the vast majority of violence against *anyone* (women, minorities, other men, etc), and that will only change when men in our society change.
Ethan, I agree it can’t be neutral, men have to do the bigger part in making a difference towards progression in our community in order for there to be a significant change, given that we have caused majority of the destruction and have the higher influence on society, but today’s young women don’t help their cause if they subside and allow men to continue degrading them!
KM, I appreciate women like you, you are the ones who need to be leaders in your fight for equality and respect. I know it will take time to change society’s mind state, but if we continue to have discussions like these on urban based sites geared towards Hip-Hop, we can continue to influence our community to make a change and get involved in the effort we are making. If more women like you, who live hip hop and make a stand against its derogatory outlook, would speak up anywhere and everywhere you can, just do so, and encourage others to too. Its a long battle but its a winable war!
I think if we begin to teach kids to use hip hop as a positive tool at an early age than we can make a difference a lot sooner than we think. This is why I work with teenagers, to help them express themselves more individually and positively. We can’t just give up on society because the majority isn’t well educated, we got to educate them with the tools we got. Take back the radio with good music with significant messages that people can dance to , influence women to use their mind instead of bodies to reach success, show the media that intelligence is just as attractive, etc… Thanks for the feedback!
I think it’s more than just a hip hop thing. It has to do with how we as people live our life, and hip hop is an expression of life, so however we live our life, hip hop is going to reflect that. As men it starts with us to stop glorifying negativity towards women, and stop showing negative attention towards women, and start showing positive attention. We have got to quit trying to flirt with everything wearing a skimpy skirt with her breasts out, because that creates a culture where more women are going to dress like that. Women need to understand that, yes they will get more attention if they dress that way, but it isn’t good attention. The caliber of man you are going to get dressing in such a way, isn’t going to be a good man, then the woman is going to wonder why she can’t find the right kind of man. We need to show attention to the women who are achieving things, who are active in positive things. As men we need to stop trying to hook up with everything that comes easy, we go for too many women that we don’t even respect. How are you going to have children with a woman, you don’t like and respect? You’re child is going to be one half of that woman, so be careful who you make them with. We encourage our boys to go out and get a piece, and we treat them like failures if they don’t, and we encourage our boys to go and get the girl with the loose morals, but we discourage our daughters from being that girl who’s dressed and acting that way. Why the contradiction in our characters as men. Too many women get themselves more sexual and seductive looking in the public, than they do around their own man. That is kind of backwords. Don’t leave the house looking like you belong in the bedroom. We have to respect ourselves. We aren’t respecting ourselves by glorifying negativity, we are limiting our potential, which otherwise would have been potentially unlimited. Too much “If you got it, flaunt it” talk, If you got it, save it for your man. As men it seems we don’t hold the women we go after to a high standard. We want that quick fix. We don’t care how recently she was with her last man, and we don’t care that as soon as she’s done with us, she’ll have a different man. We have got to hold ourselves, and eachother, accountable and to a higher standard. We can’t just keep on giving attention to those stooping themselves to low levels to get attention, make people earn attention through their accomplishments, and the good things they are doing for this world. I’m not religious, but I do believe we need to get back our sense of God, whatever God may be, we need to find our sense of purpose. Because what society has seemed to have turned men and women into, sure ain’t it. Congrats on the column Mr. Randy Diezel. You got the right mind for the job, keep em coming.
Hey Scottie of the Forest, good feedback, I’m feeling that. I completely agree. But then I’ve got to ask– how will the male mentality change? Even the “good guys” will want a night out where they goof off and flirt w/ a lil “sexy thing” (there’s another phrase that poses a problem… all of a sudden the woman is no longer human but a “sexy thing…” perceived as a mere sexual prop…). So, I mean, maybe that’s just human nature. Both men and women are sexual creatures, we want to be wanted, and we want to appease our sexual appetites. So guys will continue to look for the skimpy skirts and girls will continue to act like that bc they want that kind of attention. Unless we can figure out a way to make these kinds of girls understand that this is negative attention that they wouldn’t want. But how do we do that? And how do we change our mentalities? Some people get it, but too many do not.
DIEZEL– thanks for the comment. Where do you work with teens? That is something I would really like to do and have been meaning to find a place to volunteer.
I’m just saying… the ideas are great but how does this get implemented?
“I’m a believer that there are differences between classy and trashy women, but it seems the commercial scene tends to glorify the negative aspects of some women, failing to promote and appreciate the beneficial qualities women contribute to our society.”
I don’t want to over-victimize women. As conscious adults, we are all responsible for our behavior regardless of the cultural norms that dominate our collective psyche. Nor do I want to be the “Debbie Downer” on here. I think this forum is potentially critical in reaching a consensus on issues affecting our community.
However, I do want to say that 1) I think the difference between “trashy and classy” is in the eye of the beholder; and 2) “trashy” behavior is very often the result of a lifetime of being perceived as less than human, an atmosphere of total oppression.
Therefore, I think it wise to consider ALL women as humans of infinite value. This mindset in each of us will set us all free. Just as Martin said that no one is free until everyone is free, we men aren’t free until we loose the bonds of our own thoughts of women as less-than.
Thank God for this forum. You guys writing and organizing this site is incredible. Keep it coming!
KM: we are trying to get it implemented
http://sati.oregonsatf.org/roots.html
it’s men’s responsibility to actively struggle alongside women for women’s equality, not to just watch and support from the sidelines. we have to change the way we think and act, and we have to challenge other men to change as well.
for example, sexual assault isn’t simply a “communication issue” — it’s about us as men when we keep pushing and pushing in the absence of an enthusiastic “yes” and conveniently ignore all the signs to the contrary: “no” “i don’t know” “not sure” “i’m afraid” “please don’t” or even silence.
i think when we talk about internalized oppression it is easy to blame victims for the problems they have internalized and are enacting. i think DiezelP did a good job of acknowledging this: “being raised in a culture that insists they are inferior to men, and must use sex appeal to be successful” etc.
with more and more men like DiezelP taking a leadership role things will change, slowly and surely. it’s the courage to speak up, take leadership and be committed and accountable. so far, that’s everything i’ve seen from DiezelP! change ourselves, change one-another, change our social norms, culture and society!
here here, Chris R!
Thank you so much Ethan for those compliments, I am definetly trying to do my part as an advocate for society. Chris R., about the classy and trashy, I completely agree that “all women should be considered as humans of infinite value”, I guess what I’m trying to state are their actions of the present. I truely believe anybody can change for the better with the proper surroundings and guidance, which is the purpose of such conversations as these and organizations such as the HAVEN! I see the good in everybody…. I really do! Scottie Thank you so much for participating in this blog, I agree that the contradictory of men needs to stop, because we teach horrible values to our sons about how to treat a woman, and the exact opposite to our daughters, leaving slim pickens for our women. I also agree we are all responsible for our own actions, but a lot of our actions are based upon morals, behavior, and knowledge that was taught to us as children and young adults, so when one has been in a negative environment their entire life, they tend to act upon how they were taught. And unfortunately these women are hearing this misogny in the most popular music of their era (hip hop) at a very early age, and seeing men and women act upon it in their community, thus influencing the nieve child or young adult to do the same if not properly raised and guided. Thank you
This is the best written article I have seen about women and hip-hop. I think this discussion should be continued.
As a man, emcee, an lover of most things “Hip-Hop”, I must say this;
if women want things in Hip Hop culture to change, THEY must be the hammer that drives the nail. I can think of 5 awesome female emcees/media personalities off the top of my head at any given moment. The fact of the matter is, as of right now, they’re aren’t really any females in rap music, or Hip Hop culture making big positive waves in regards to the derogatory nature of Hip Hop culture and Rap music verses women.
Women who are respected, EARNED their respect. Sistah Soulja did it. Queen Latifah did it. MC Lyte did it. Eve did it too.
Nobody is forcing video groupies act like video groupies. No one is forcing women shake their asses on BET. Those women did those things willingly (and they are PAID to do it I might add).
Im not saying the way these women are depicted is ok. Im not saying its right.
What I am saying is that, those particular women are making it that much harder for women who are trying to get into the business of hip hop culture (without compromising their dignity).
Everything, and everyone has a proper place. Booty music, club bangers, ass shaking, B****, H****, and any other foul word used to describe women has a proper place. Those things are good, or bad. It just depends on the context that they are used in.
For a long time, there has been an unbalance in the game. Out of 10 new Hip Hop videos on any given day, 8 of them will probably depict women in a negative light. The other 2 joints are usually what the media refers to as “concious” rap/Hip Hop music.
Ive got a question as serious as cancer:
Why in the F*** is there need to refer to certain rap music as “concious”? Are the rest of these rappers/emcees unconcious? Hell, Nas went as far as to say the culture is dead…but Ill save that rant for another blog…
We as a culture need to stop blaming others and take resposiblity for our actions and the way we conduct ourselves in public. If theirs anything my mother taught me is this:
A girl gets put in her place.
A woman CHOOSES her place.
(What Mama forgot to tell me is that the same rule applies to both sexes)
Stay intelligent and beautiful yall.
Out.
-DubbLife
myspace.com/dubblife
Justin, I appreciate the compliment!!!! Double Life, I completely agree that every person is responsible for themselves, for their actions and path they take in life. But I think that are priorities, responsibilites, and morals come from the knowledge and experience gained from our surroundings, effecting their actions and path. I think that people in general but especially those who have a fan base, have people listening to their music and reading their columns, has the youth looking up to them, have a responsibility to educate and help develope people to be positive contributors and respectable people. With great power, comes great responsibility, and those blessed with the gift of creative expression, influence, wealth, and a following should influence their community to be better people. We are all one race, human race and we need to aid each other through life in order to grow!
And I also agree that we should not categorize any type of hip hop as conscious hip hop, because your right anybody who can express themself, wither positively or negatively, has to be conscious of their life and environment to do so! I refer to my music as socially aware, semi-political or positive hip hop, it goes deeper than just being conscious. Thank you for your input!!!!
Diezel P, I have a few young Portland folks who want to start writing on what’s Happening PDX…stay tuned. We are about to have some young minds sharing their thoughts on gender in the workplace from a student POV…cannot wait.
Hey DubbLife,
I think you’re right about responsibility…Men have been making the rules for centuries in our societies. Yes, it’s true that things that women do can reinforce them, but as men we are responsible for changing the game to be more fair and open to promote positive qualities in everyone. It’s time for us to step up as men and take responsibility.
The names that you mentioned are exceptions to the rules. I don’t think it’s reasonable to sit back and tell women to “take responsibility” when men for so long have NOT taken much responsibility, let alone a leadership role in changing the system.
That to me is the difference between “conscious” music and other stuff. The conscious stuff is often booty shaking party music, but the people who make it decided that they aren’t going to do it in a way that degrades men and women by playing into and promoting negative stereotypes. All music should be “conscious” music, regardless of subject or genre.
Women in our society don’t choose to be paid less than men to do the same quality of work, they don’t choose to be physically and sexually assaulted, interrupted, reduced to objects w/no other human value, have their ideas ignored or dismissed, etc. That will change when we as men change. As men we have to take the lead on this, because it’s our issue first and foremost, the same way white people need to take the lead on eliminating white racism and supremacy.
For too long, we’ve put all the responsibility on the people who have been victims.
I just want to Thank everyone for participating in this discussion. Its so great to hear such great perceptions on a very controversial issue. Thank you, this is a very rewarding experience for me, please spread the word!
I have to agree with everyone present that this discussion needs to be elevated to its proper stage at the for-front of the evolution of hip hop and I have to say that the level of discussion for an internet forum is fantastic. That said, as Chris R started to, I would like to point out some of the flaws I see in some of the writings that come out of the patriarchal model of society that has shaped the very language we use to discuss gender issues. (I mean no disrespect to any of the contributors, I know everyone here is interested in tackling this problem… I’m just trying to further the discussion). Here are the things that stood out as needing more careful consideration:
DiezelP: “Women not only acquire the most important ability to multiply the population of the urban community”
I know this isn’t what you meant, that is clear from the rest of the article, but this relegates women to the misogynist model of primarily being breeders. Multiplying the population is a faaaar call from the most important ability of women.
KM: “But then there’s the few outliers like myself, just doing me”
“I can only say that I counter the image of the average girl or the typical “hoe” by my very existence and who I am.”
This implies that the intelligent woman with self-esteem is the exception and special while that average girl/”hoe” is normal, or even worse unworthy of respect. This encourages male attitudes of raising certain “special” women on a pedestal while disregarding the rest as “average” sexual objects.
Scottie: “Women need to understand the kind of man they are going to get if they portray themselves in such a negative, sexual, seductive, way.”
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with women portraying themselves in a sexual, seductive way. Downplaying feminine sexuality as somehow negative legitimizes male superiority in an area that has long oppressed women.
” Too many women get themselves more sexual and seductive looking in the public, than they do around their own man.”
This one gets me. For every woman you show me that goes out in heels and a fly, sexy dress while rocking granny panties or something around their man; I’ll show you a dude who brushes his kicks, makes sure his jeans are pressed and his swag is at its top when he leaves the house…all while chillin in sweatpants and unwashed funk when he’s just with his girl.
Thanks for entering the discussion Torin!!! I can only speak for myself, but I truely believe that reproduction is the most important quality to mankind or any kind of living species period!!! Its how we continue to exist as living beings through time. I figured someone would call me out on the fact I brought that up a lot, and of course men are needed to reproduce, but I believe women deserve more respect than society gives them just based on the sacrifice their body and life makes during the process of pregnancy and child birth (because its obvious that its A LOT MORE extreme than the man’s part in the process), not to mention all the additional qualities women contribute to society! Yeah, so I’m glad that you read more into the column and saw that I’m not trying to make women seem one dimensional as just breeders, just wanted to get the importance of it acrossed in my column.
I also agree that there is nothing wrong with being sexy in public, wither male or female. I guess the problem is that in modern society, sexy is getting depicted as more and more revealing or pornographic for women and a lot of them are adapting to these perceptions which does attract negative attention because honestly its mostly one track minded men who portray women as only being sexy in very revealing types of outfits, while a sexy man is still considered to be in a nice suit and tie or attire that most the time leaves them fully clothed. I know that if women started saying that men look the most sexy in a speedo, I wouldn’t start wearing one to the club or anywhere. Personally, I think that women can look damn good in sweats and a t-shirt, something about the comfortable look is very attractive to me, and I know a lot of men who think the same!!! And I believe that you should be able to chill at home with your significant other in casual and comfortable wear, I wouldn’t expect my girl to get all dolled up to come watch a movie at my house. Thanks again for your input!
Hey Torin, you make a good point except that you missed an important detail in what I said, which changes the meaning: “I can only say that I counter the image of the average girl or the typical “hoe” …”– the IMAGE of the average girl, and indeed society’s image of the average girl does not match the reality of the average girl. From many of my interactions, I’ve noticed that ppl do think of the “average girl” as the one with too much skin showing in the clubs, pounds of make and dolled up hair… giggling at any lil thing w/ her sugary “girly” drinks, as ppl call them… ready to bump n grind, not too much going on in her mind…. that’s just what I’ve found many guys to perceive as the “average girl” from my interactions. That is a false image. There are girls like that, but it is a real shame that they are understood to be the norm; that guys expect any female to be like that by nature of being a female. Again, this won’t apply to everyone, but one too many.
I think your other comment was interesting but I disagree in a couple of ways:
“There is nothing fundamentally wrong with women portraying themselves in a sexual, seductive way. Downplaying feminine sexuality as somehow negative legitimizes male superiority in an area that has long oppressed women.”
Being sexy is not wrong or low or depraved, etc. But then I think it’s a matter of how far you take it. There is a difference between sexy and just dirty or coming close to looking like a prostitute. If a woman presents herself in an excessively revealing outfit that just pokes at the thought of sex by its very nature, and, as if that weren’t enough, she proceeds to dance in ways that are no less than a demonstration for how she rolls in the bedroom, how will someone perceive her? Sexually. All that she comes off as is something to screw, and the sad thing is she’s doing it to herself.
Now, there are guys who will look at any female as just something to screw regardless of how she presents herself. Most recently I’ve been trying to figure out how to make these dudes see the person that is right in front of them, because they don’t see her! They continue with their presumptions that she is as he expects her to be.
So I’m saying, we all understand that each action will provoke a reaction. And if a girl chooses to come out looking like a sexual prop, she will get treated as a sexual prop. She needs to be responsible in her decision for how she presents herself. But the other issue is the guys who perceive all females in one degrading way. They don’t see the person, how each one differs and then interact with them according to that. Not sure how to make them see.
DubbLife–
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. And your mama’s quote is what’s up!! One thing I want to mention though– you said:
“Nobody is forcing video groupies act like video groupies. No one is forcing women shake their asses on BET. Those women did those things willingly (and they are PAID to do it I might add).”
Very true, but you should keep in mind that they’re doing this because that’s what the director/video producer/whoever is in charge wants. There’s way more good-looking, ass-shaking females then are needed for any video. What one cutie won’t do, the other 10 will. The entertainment industry is looking for women to dress in the skimpy outfits they tell them and to shake it. And if they don’t, then they don’t need to come to auditions and someone else will get the job. So there’s ppl like me who aren’t interested in that and will look for other ways to make money, but a lot of females want that MTV fame and will do whatever to try and get there. So yes it’s the responsibility of these women to make the decision and not participate in videos that portray them as such, but that’s the only videos that seem to be out there (I’ll admit that I’m not in the entertainment industry, and don’t know too much about it, so if I’m missing something please let me know!)– but the entertainment industry also holds a large chunk of that responsibility bc they’re the ones who are choosing what and how something is portrayed. I don’t see them as having any real incentive to change.
I think everyone’s comments are so great but then when it comes down to it, I don’t see how the influential industries and the people are going to start doing things differently. From artists to music videos to club promoters to popular movies to the average person in the club…. it’s a cycle and each of these agents feed into one another. I’m trying to figure out how the messages, expectations, stereotypes and images would start to change in this cycle…???? I do believe it can change, I’m not trying to sound hopeless, I’d just like to see action and I can’t figure out how that would happen effectively. Especially after a recent conversation with some backward minded sexist who won’t listen to anything anyone says that counters his previous perceptions and who just tells me to “accept my role.” And it’s ridiculous because he is Black and talks about ppl being treated equally but then he is hypocritical in his own logic bc that does not apply to women. So how the F*** do we get something to click in the heads of these ppl who can’t see or hear anything that they don’t already agree with?!? Anyone can feel free to enlighten me!
Thanks to everyone contributing, it’s really great to hear all your perspectives and get feedback and especially challenged in my own view points. Keep it up!
The only way things are going to change is on an individual by individual basis. It’s probably going to take a generation or two before we start to even notice any effects of this, if we even do. Because when I was younger I was all about those video girls with their booties out. As I get older I see how it effects things. So it’s on us as an individual to represent ourselves in the best way we know how.
I have a quote where I say “Represent yourself well, or don’t be represented” But I think that in alot of ways with women we do the opposite, we are attracted to those women who don’t represent themselves well, and we represent em. Then we get mad at em for not acting right. That’s like meeting someone at a bar, then 6 months later being mad because you don’t know how you ended up with an alcoholic. As a person, now I’m trying to be more attracted to the morals a person has, instead of how far their breasts are hangin out. But it is hard not to look. But at the same time, that ain’t a woman I’m bringin over to my mammas house. Men are conflicted people. We just gotta encourage ourselves and our kids to look for good qualities in people. Maybe in a generation or two things will be different, but for now I don’t imagine the women on BET or MTV to be portrayed well, or to portray themselves well. Sex sells. But what hip hop really needs is a woman who can kill anybody on the mic, who isn’t about all that bullstuff to achieve critical acclaim. And we need others on the underground scene to do the same. But we really do need that commercially successful female emcee to be one of the best emcees in the game, and to be a good example.
I agree that MEN are conflicted people! Great comment Scottie, its rough as a young man with our hormones going crazy, to not look at these heavily exposed women. But it is one thing to look, than to support it, promote it, and embrace it. As long as we stick to our guns and show undivided, respectful, and positive attention to the women who respect themselves, and show the over-exposing women that the attention given to classy women is much better than guys getting googly eyed at their very revealing outfits, we will continue progressing as a society…… SLOWLY but SURELY!
Scottie: “Men are conflicted people.” Right on — props on mentioning that! I used to wonder, “Is it ok for me to have gay friends? what will people think?”
I don’t think we as men do enough to support one-another in taking leadership on this issue, out of fear. If we take those three things:
1. being conflicted,
2. being supportive
3. being afraid (ex: of others thinking of us as “gay” “pussy” etc — all slurs tied to femininity)
do those sound like “masculine” traits? do we risk losing “masculinity” if we are honest to ourselves and others about stuff like this? How can we provide true leadership if we are dishonest or if we avoid confronting the things that make us afraid?
this is a great discussion! thanks everyone!
The discussion has moved to week 3
Will Hip-Hop EVER Reach Its Full Potential? Balance and Options by Diezel P… You can find the discussion on the home page
so viewers can follow all your thoughts.
Y’all are awesome!
Basically everyone just needs to drop the bullshit ideas of “this is what ‘masculine’ is”, and “this is what ‘feminine’ is”. People are just people. And we’re all different, and we’re not gonna be a certain way just cuz we’re male/female/black/white/etc. Why doesn’t everyone get this already!
Y’all are awesome for being on here. ONE LOVE.
Yes I agree with KM, You guys are AWESOME!
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Do i agree with music lyrics? no
Do i agree with the lifestyle of rappers and hip hop artists?
not all of them.
Do they make good music? yes
everyone makes mistakes, we learn off of it, they will too, and in the meantime they make good music doing it. Sad but so true.
if you want to hear some good music, non trashy, put some old school R n B on, but even there, its not perfect.
Even back in the 70’s 80’s, it will never change, I am not being negative just honest, I remember my mom and dad not liking my choice of music back in the day 30 years ago. They also didn’t have an open mind. The world is changing so fast, who knows how are kids and someday grandkids will live in the future? All you can do to is raise your kids and do it well, dont let your parents raise your kids take care of our children.
now again with the music, These artist are talented, they sing, rap very well, women are sexy, men are fine, sexual attraction it will never quit, you got to love it. Right now, Lil Jon on, i am 38, i like it! GET LOW! makes me wanna dance, but i am at work and my break is over.
just educate, teach and raise your children well, i have 5, my husband and i are doing well.
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